<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments for Random bits</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Random thoughts about random things...by Jonathan Katz</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:01:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Correcting errors (guest post by Yehuda Lindell) by Bodo Möller</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/correcting-errors-guest-post-by-yehuda-lindell/#comment-11018</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bodo Möller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=933#comment-11018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This discussion (and Yehuda&#039;s comment at http://eprint.iacr.org/forum/read.php?12,604) tend to show up in search engines, so it seems warranted to add additional pointers:

Koblitz and Menezes have responded to the discussion, both by posting an updated version of their HMAC paper (http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/074) and by posting a new paper &quot;Another look at non-uniformity&quot; -- see http://www.anotherlook.ca/nonunif.shtml for links to that paper and to additional material (such as slides at http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/~ajmeneze/anotherlook/ECC2012.pdf, for the impatient reader).

Regarding the question of whether or not there is a &quot;flaw&quot;, here is the core of an essential quote from the latest version of &quot;Another look at HMAC&quot;:

&quot;The claim that Bellare’s proofs are in the non-uniform model of complexity may be puzzling to readers, since the paragraph titled “Techniques” in the Introduction would lead those who understand the uniform vs. non-uniform distinction to conclude that Bellare is not using the non-uniform model of complexity. He writes: “[...]” [...] this statement makes no sense if proofs are valid only in the non-uniform model. Thus, a careful reader would be led to believe that Bellare’s results are intended to be valid in the uniform model of complexity.
Moreover, in the next section we show that the analysis of his theorem that Bellare provides in §3.2 of [1] is flawed, because it implicitly assumes that his proof is valid in the uniform model of complexity.&quot;

(I do realize that this update continues to side-track the actual subject of this blog article, which is _how_ to deal with flaws. In this regard, it seems fair to say that Yehuda has observed a flaw in Neal Koblitz. Do I agree with how he has reported it? Well, if I didn&#039;t, I probably shouldn&#039;t tell you here.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion (and Yehuda&#8217;s comment at <a href="http://eprint.iacr.org/forum/read.php?12,604" rel="nofollow">http://eprint.iacr.org/forum/read.php?12,604</a>) tend to show up in search engines, so it seems warranted to add additional pointers:</p>
<p>Koblitz and Menezes have responded to the discussion, both by posting an updated version of their HMAC paper (<a href="http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/074" rel="nofollow">http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/074</a>) and by posting a new paper &#8220;Another look at non-uniformity&#8221; &#8212; see <a href="http://www.anotherlook.ca/nonunif.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.anotherlook.ca/nonunif.shtml</a> for links to that paper and to additional material (such as slides at <a href="http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/~ajmeneze/anotherlook/ECC2012.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/~ajmeneze/anotherlook/ECC2012.pdf</a>, for the impatient reader).</p>
<p>Regarding the question of whether or not there is a &#8220;flaw&#8221;, here is the core of an essential quote from the latest version of &#8220;Another look at HMAC&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;The claim that Bellare’s proofs are in the non-uniform model of complexity may be puzzling to readers, since the paragraph titled “Techniques” in the Introduction would lead those who understand the uniform vs. non-uniform distinction to conclude that Bellare is not using the non-uniform model of complexity. He writes: “[...]” [...] this statement makes no sense if proofs are valid only in the non-uniform model. Thus, a careful reader would be led to believe that Bellare’s results are intended to be valid in the uniform model of complexity.<br />
Moreover, in the next section we show that the analysis of his theorem that Bellare provides in §3.2 of [1] is flawed, because it implicitly assumes that his proof is valid in the uniform model of complexity.&#8221;</p>
<p>(I do realize that this update continues to side-track the actual subject of this blog article, which is _how_ to deal with flaws. In this regard, it seems fair to say that Yehuda has observed a flaw in Neal Koblitz. Do I agree with how he has reported it? Well, if I didn&#8217;t, I probably shouldn&#8217;t tell you here.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Industry vs. academia by Winter</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/industry-vs-academia/#comment-10503</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 01:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=266#comment-10503</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have met plenty of professors who only care about getting grants and bragging about their own importance, with no thought towards their students.  I only know a rare few at research universities that are exceptions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have met plenty of professors who only care about getting grants and bragging about their own importance, with no thought towards their students.  I only know a rare few at research universities that are exceptions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Ideal World vs. Real World by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/ideal-world-vs-real-world/#comment-7412</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 16:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=925#comment-7412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[lol, really funny, the comments too]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol, really funny, the comments too</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Correcting errors (guest post by Yehuda Lindell) by FakeBartPreneel</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/correcting-errors-guest-post-by-yehuda-lindell/#comment-6839</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FakeBartPreneel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 14:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=933#comment-6839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apparently, the controversy has reached FakeIACR twitter account (22 March - https://twitter.com/#!/FakeIACR)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently, the controversy has reached FakeIACR twitter account (22 March &#8211; <a href="https://twitter.com/#!/FakeIACR" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/#!/FakeIACR</a>)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Correcting errors (guest post by Yehuda Lindell) by jonkatz</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/correcting-errors-guest-post-by-yehuda-lindell/#comment-6830</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonkatz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 21:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=933#comment-6830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, I think Bernstein has a valid point (that was not articulated, at least not explicitly, in the original Koblitz-Menezes paper).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think Bernstein has a valid point (that was not articulated, at least not explicitly, in the original Koblitz-Menezes paper).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Correcting errors (guest post by Yehuda Lindell) by CryptoFan</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/correcting-errors-guest-post-by-yehuda-lindell/#comment-6828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CryptoFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=933#comment-6828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for sharing Dan Bernstein&#039;s rump session talk!  That was informative.  It has me thinking there may be something to the criticisms.  For those of us who are not fully up on the details of the controversy, can the folks who are objecting to Koblitz and Menezes respond substantively to the criticism explained in Bernstein&#039;s rump session talk?

P.S. Make sure you are familiar with time-space tradeoff and precomputation attacks before reading Bernstein&#039;s slides; otherwise some aspects may be inscrutable (e.g., where 2^85 comes from).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing Dan Bernstein&#8217;s rump session talk!  That was informative.  It has me thinking there may be something to the criticisms.  For those of us who are not fully up on the details of the controversy, can the folks who are objecting to Koblitz and Menezes respond substantively to the criticism explained in Bernstein&#8217;s rump session talk?</p>
<p>P.S. Make sure you are familiar with time-space tradeoff and precomputation attacks before reading Bernstein&#8217;s slides; otherwise some aspects may be inscrutable (e.g., where 2^85 comes from).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Do I expect too much? by Frank Vega</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/do-i-expect-too-much/#comment-6709</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank Vega]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2012 20:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=940#comment-6709</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jonathan Katz 
Could I have your opinion about one post &quot;P versus UP&quot; in:

http://the-point-of-view-of-frank.blogspot.com/

?
Thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan Katz<br />
Could I have your opinion about one post &#8220;P versus UP&#8221; in:</p>
<p><a href="http://the-point-of-view-of-frank.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://the-point-of-view-of-frank.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>?<br />
Thanks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Correcting errors (guest post by Yehuda Lindell) by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/correcting-errors-guest-post-by-yehuda-lindell/#comment-6683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=933#comment-6683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dan Bernstein gave a rump session talk on this subject at FSE 2012.  Here is a link to the slides:

http://cr.yp.to/talks/2012.03.20/slides.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan Bernstein gave a rump session talk on this subject at FSE 2012.  Here is a link to the slides:</p>
<p><a href="http://cr.yp.to/talks/2012.03.20/slides.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://cr.yp.to/talks/2012.03.20/slides.pdf</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Do I expect too much? by CryptoTeacher</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/do-i-expect-too-much/#comment-6642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CryptoTeacher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2012 05:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=940#comment-6642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think malleability is the wrong concept to teach anyway.

I&#039;d suggest teaching about confidentiality and integrity.  I explain that one of the most common mistakes is to use encryption without authentication, thinking that all you need is confidentiality but not integrity, and actually ending up with neither.   Make sure to give some real-world examples.

Then, I would explain about the concept of a secure channel.

I actually think that we do our students a disservice by focusing so heavily on the low-level primitives like encryption and message authentication.  Those are too low-level, and consequently get misused.  For 95% of applications, the abstraction they need is either a secure channel (e.g., SSL/TLS), or secure storage (e.g., GPG).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think malleability is the wrong concept to teach anyway.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest teaching about confidentiality and integrity.  I explain that one of the most common mistakes is to use encryption without authentication, thinking that all you need is confidentiality but not integrity, and actually ending up with neither.   Make sure to give some real-world examples.</p>
<p>Then, I would explain about the concept of a secure channel.</p>
<p>I actually think that we do our students a disservice by focusing so heavily on the low-level primitives like encryption and message authentication.  Those are too low-level, and consequently get misused.  For 95% of applications, the abstraction they need is either a secure channel (e.g., SSL/TLS), or secure storage (e.g., GPG).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Correcting errors (guest post by Yehuda Lindell) by Yehuda Lindell</title>
		<link>http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/correcting-errors-guest-post-by-yehuda-lindell/#comment-6571</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yehuda Lindell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/?p=933#comment-6571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[kilmo: I actually find that the reverse is the case. I hear more practitioners (I will assume that you consider yourself in this community) belittling the contribution of theory than the contrary. I also don&#039;t think that Oded&#039;s book is any example. Oded is a theoretician; he researches theory only. His book is a book about theory. He makes no claim to doing practical cryptography. He believes that a strong foundation in theory helps practice, but he is not doing practical cryptography and is also not belittling it.

I also am a strong believer that a strong foundation in theory helps practice. However, I have no contempt whatsoever of cryptanalysis or practice. By the way, from my experience in Crypto and Eurocrypt committees, papers on cryptanalysis get rejected by cryptanalysis people and certainly NOT by theory people (who have no opinion on it).

Regarding open contempt: I have never ever seen a paper or heard a talk by a theoretician who shows open contempt of practice and criticises an entire field, like [KM]. (Now, I am sure that there are some theoreticians with such contempt. However, they are not writing papers about this contempt and are not given wide support for their contempt.)

One last word: I DO believe that there is merit to some claims made by [KM]. Indeed, proofs need to be checked more. Indeed, a discussion on the usefulness of theoretical models in practice is important. And more. However, a discussion based on mutual respect of both sides is much more constructive and productive than a mud-slinging match.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kilmo: I actually find that the reverse is the case. I hear more practitioners (I will assume that you consider yourself in this community) belittling the contribution of theory than the contrary. I also don&#8217;t think that Oded&#8217;s book is any example. Oded is a theoretician; he researches theory only. His book is a book about theory. He makes no claim to doing practical cryptography. He believes that a strong foundation in theory helps practice, but he is not doing practical cryptography and is also not belittling it.</p>
<p>I also am a strong believer that a strong foundation in theory helps practice. However, I have no contempt whatsoever of cryptanalysis or practice. By the way, from my experience in Crypto and Eurocrypt committees, papers on cryptanalysis get rejected by cryptanalysis people and certainly NOT by theory people (who have no opinion on it).</p>
<p>Regarding open contempt: I have never ever seen a paper or heard a talk by a theoretician who shows open contempt of practice and criticises an entire field, like [KM]. (Now, I am sure that there are some theoreticians with such contempt. However, they are not writing papers about this contempt and are not given wide support for their contempt.)</p>
<p>One last word: I DO believe that there is merit to some claims made by [KM]. Indeed, proofs need to be checked more. Indeed, a discussion on the usefulness of theoretical models in practice is important. And more. However, a discussion based on mutual respect of both sides is much more constructive and productive than a mud-slinging match.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
